Nightcore Know Your Meme

For Nightcore discussion in general.
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Vitacx97
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Re: Nightcore Know Your Meme

Post by Vitacx97 » May 13th, 2015, 5:45 am

OppaiSama wrote: The problem is that this definition cannot be understood from simply that explanation. Our aim (and sorry if I'm over enthusiastic about this) should be to write a proper Nightcore definition that covers all real Nightcore, but disregards the fake stuff that come out post 2010/2011.
I agree with this. The problem however lies within the larger channels confusing newcomers to the genre and the lack of genre knowledge in the first place. A lot of people who show up here genuinely think what they are uploading is "real nightcore", and they don't bother reading the countless threads and announcements posted telling them otherwise. Because let's face it, hardly anyone actually reads anything. Two years as a moderator on another forum board has taught me that.
OppaiSama wrote: I would be really happy if you guys would listen to enough of the songs (skip around if you want) to be able to tell whether or not you think it is within the Nightcore genre.
Sure, no problem. I just filled it out.
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OppaiSama
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Re: Nightcore Know Your Meme

Post by OppaiSama » May 13th, 2015, 11:57 am

Vitacx97 wrote: I agree with this. The problem however lies within the larger channels confusing newcomers to the genre and the lack of genre knowledge in the first place. A lot of people who show up here genuinely think what they are uploading is "real nightcore", and they don't bother reading the countless threads and announcements posted telling them otherwise. Because let's face it, hardly anyone actually reads anything. Two years as a moderator on another forum board has taught me that.
Yeah, I guess you're right. In that case, our biggest goal is to be sure that anyone who knows the "truth", and wants to debate with those people, can reference the KYM Nightcore, win arguments and spread the word :)
Vitacx97 wrote:Sure, no problem. I just filled it out.
We're a 100% match ;) Glad to see!
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emilemil1
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Re: Nightcore Know Your Meme

Post by emilemil1 » May 13th, 2015, 2:57 pm

The problem with winning an argument about what words mean is that it depends entirely on who you ask, and it's usually the majority that decides what the "truth" is. We can show all the history proofs we want, but if 97% of the world have come to the agreement that Nightcore = Sped-up music, then that will be what the word means. We can't really use its past definition as an argument for what it should mean today.

Similar things happens all the time, for example to words like "Gay". Most people read that word and thinks "Homosexual", but in the past it simply meant "Happy". Does that mean that using the word Gay when you mean Homosexual is wrong in any way because it's not always been that way? And can we blame someone for not choosing to use the old definition when presented with both alternatives, when everyone around them is using the new definition?

Did the survey :)
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OppaiSama
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Re: Nightcore Know Your Meme

Post by OppaiSama » May 13th, 2015, 3:36 pm

emilemil1 wrote:Similar things happens all the time, for example to words like "Gay". Most people read that word and thinks "Homosexual", but in the past it simply meant "Happy". Does that mean that using the word Gay when you mean Homosexual is wrong in any way because it's not always been that way? And can we blame someone for not choosing to use the old definition when presented with both alternatives, when everyone around them is using the new definition?

Did the survey :)
I see what you mean, BUT I'm happy you use that example: a good chunk of people are aware of the fact that "gay" also means happy (in the same way that people have started calling others "a bundle of sticks" which is the old definition of "faggot" - excuse the language).

With that said, you are absolutely right that the majority dictates the USAGE of the word, but the definition should stay the same, much in the same way that we wouldn't change the abbreviation "would've" to "would of" just because many people started writing that.

And thanks for answering the survey :)

Here's the current status for the people interested:
4 entries, only disagreements appear in nr. 1 and 10.

__________________________
Updated the KYM Nightcore page today, did the following (until "Dance MV"):
  • Cleaned up some spelling and rephrased to avoid repetition.
  • Changed all instances of "Nightcore" to be capitalized for consistency - this is debatable as it depends on whether we consider Nightcore a genre or phenomenon.
  • Removed link from second instance of Maikel631 (usually, hyper-links are only used on the first instance - but KYM could have different style, but I can't check this anywhere, so I'll have to do that at next given opportunity).
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emilemil1
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Re: Nightcore Know Your Meme

Post by emilemil1 » May 13th, 2015, 4:23 pm

I used the Gay example because it's probably the most common one, which is also why a lot of people know about it ^^ The Noob/Newb confusion is probably closer to my heart, since I was there when the transition happened. I've just come to accept that change now.

In the end it's irrelevant what the definition is or has been, what matters is how a word is used at present, whether it's in multiple ways or in a single way. Usage dictates everything in this case, since words and their meanings in the eyes of the population depends solely on usage, not on what's stated in dictionaries.
much in the same way that we wouldn't change the abbreviation "would've" to "would of" just because many people started writing that.
I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up happening, seeing how common it's getting.
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HKO2006
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Re: Nightcore Know Your Meme

Post by HKO2006 » May 13th, 2015, 6:43 pm

OppaiSama wrote:4 entries, only disagreements appear in nr. 1 and 10.
They are from me, both answers are well.., explained below.
The 'is this Nightcore' question always bothers me when I am creating nightcore playlists for channels which do not have one yet. It bothered me when I was deciding whether to include some songs in the Nightcore channel in DI Radio. It is good to see you raise this issue, I have always been waiting/looking for one would raise it, the last one was Nightcore Raver (HFU Nightcore, who deleted his NU account some time ago).

I consider the following when determining whether a song is nightcore:
BPM
Pitch of the vocal
Sped up %
Amount of vocals
Amount of lyrics
Amount of synth riff
Type of synth riff/other effects
Type of kicks
genre
or just the question of does it sound like the original Nightcore songs

__________________________

Had problem playing YouTube video so some songs I just found the originals.
survey answers below, don't see if you haven't done it yet
1. Nightcore - Listen to your heart - YouTube, Jun 27, 2009 - Uploaded by Ralphie Cee

Pitch of the vocal <- not enough
Sped up % <- seems not enough too (also made the pitch not high)

2. Nightcore - I See The Light - YouTube, Apr 10, 2014 - Uploaded by xXMeInSuRaXx

The vocal is kind of strange compared to the original / other see the light but nvm.

3. Hollywood Undead - Undead no

4. Parralox - Electricity, Synth-pop, no

5. Xandria - Sisters of the Light, symphonic metal, gothic, gothic metal, no

6. Stan SB - Dead (Original Mix), Drum & Bass, no

7. Angel of Darkness, funny it is the most viewed nightcore song now

8. angel with :), no

9. Krewella - Feel Me, Progressive House, House, Electro, Dubstep, Drum n Bass, no

10. Azuro - Ti Amo (Video Edit) [feat. Elly], Nightcore III ~ Ti Amo ! - YouTube, Oct 16, 2011 - Uploaded by Baf | Top of The coRe
I tend to support this channel so allow me to replace the video with this one

BPM 160, the minimal BPM for hardcore
Type of synth riff/other effects, no synth but flute
Type of kicks, house kicks
so no (answered well in survey)
__________________________

About your edits
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/nightcore/edits/519034
Hmmm, not cap I for the Internet?
On the 9 February, 2008 <- no need for the I think

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/nightcore/edits/519446
has an impressive count of 201 <- subjective

I like your writing 'Lanta111/ made his appearance on YouTube' :D

In 2011, the next big Nightcore uploader <-the 'big' is kind of subjective to me, and a total of 45 Nightcore songs isn't big, just it has a lot of views so I added it. Was it a big channel back in 2011? I didn't about nightcore till end of 2013.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/nightcore/edits/519460
reviewed

@OppaiSama, you should make a thread in The Red Carpet when you have time. A copy of your Editorship Request for Nightcore should do plus where you live/time zone.
__________________________
OppaiSama wrote:With that said, you are absolutely right that the majority dictates the USAGE of the word, but the definition should stay the same, much in the same way that we wouldn't change the abbreviation "would've" to "would of" just because many people started writing that.
Kind of like Prescriptive vs Descriptive.

Previous discussion
Is todays Nightcore really a "Nightcore"?
http://nightcoreuniverse.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=5216
Why Nightcore is sped up dance/trance not sped up any song
http://www.nightcoreuniverse.net/viewto ... =17&t=4939
Nightcore?
http://www.nightcoreuniverse.net/viewto ... =13&t=4911
So what caused the rise of fake nightcores?
http://nightcoreuniverse.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3739

Related
How to make Nightcore (NIGHTCORE TUTORIAL) UPDATED <-see genre part
http://nightcoreuniverse.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4900
Welcome to Nightcore Universe! Enjoy your stay as much as you enjoy the original Nightcore songs!
Useful threads/links
What is Nightcore 101
Nightcore Channel Database
Nightcore Know Your Meme
How to make Nightcore (NIGHTCORE TUTORIAL) UPDATED
Speeding up seems to be a little magic making things a little bit more appealing.

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OppaiSama
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Re: Nightcore Know Your Meme

Post by OppaiSama » May 14th, 2015, 2:26 am

hko2006 wrote:
1. Nightcore - Listen to your heart - YouTube, Jun 27, 2009 - Uploaded by Ralphie Cee

Pitch of the vocal <- not enough
Sped up % <- seems not enough too (also made the pitch not high)
I was slightly surprised to see someone disagree with that one :p
BPM count is 166~167.
The original is 73.
That's over 2X the speed :)
I can agree with the pitch, though, that it's not as high as I would usually consider in Nightcore. That having been said, I think of it more as an author's expression and would still call it Nightcore. :)
hko2006 wrote: 10. Azuro - Ti Amo (Video Edit) [feat. Elly], Nightcore III ~ Ti Amo ! - YouTube, Oct 16, 2011 - Uploaded by Baf | Top of The coRe
I tend to support this channel so allow me to replace the video with this one

BPM 160, the minimal BPM for hardcore
Type of synth riff/other effects, no synth but flute
Type of kicks, house kicks
so no (answered well in survey)[/spoiler]
I agree with your decision on this one that it is not Nightcore. I would, however, not argue much if someone said it was because, like you said, it has a lot of the elements required.
I counter a BPM of 155.
hko2006 wrote: About your edits
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/nightcore/edits/519034
Hmmm, not cap I for the Internet?
Internet is my bad. I'm so used to writing it in lower-case. It should be 'I' like you said.
hko2006 wrote: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/nightcore/edits/519446
has an impressive count of 201 <- subjective
Agreed. I remember trying to rewrite this, as it already said something that sounded subjective but in a slightly "clumsy" manner. Simply writing "has a count" should do.
hko2006 wrote: In 2011, the next big Nightcore uploader <-the 'big' is kind of subjective to me, and a total of 45 Nightcore songs isn't big, just it has a lot of views so I added it. Was it a big channel back in 2011? I didn't about nightcore till end of 2013.
Ahh, I misunderstood what was already written (which means it wasn't clear enough :D). I feel like it's okay to say "big" though, if it's significant enough to mention. Big is more a way of saying "this is why we are telling you" than "So many videos, omg".
hko2006 wrote: @OppaiSama, you should make a thread in The Red Carpet when you have time. A copy of your Editorship Request for Nightcore should do plus where you live/time zone.
I'll see if I have time :)
hko2006 wrote:Kind of like Prescriptive vs Descriptive.
I'd like to talk more about that later - I have to go now so I won't have time to chat about it.
I'll get back to ya soon.
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HKO2006
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Re: Nightcore Know Your Meme

Post by HKO2006 » May 14th, 2015, 2:56 am

OppaiSama wrote:
hko2006 wrote:
1. Nightcore - Listen to your heart - YouTube, Jun 27, 2009 - Uploaded by Ralphie Cee

Pitch of the vocal <- not enough
Sped up % <- seems not enough too (also made the pitch not high)
I was slightly surprised to see someone disagree with that one :p
BPM count is 166~167.
The original is 73.
That's over 2X the speed :)
I can agree with the pitch, though, that it's not as high as I would usually consider in Nightcore. That having been said, I think of it more as an author's expression and would still call it Nightcore. :)
hko2006 wrote: 10. Azuro - Ti Amo (Video Edit) [feat. Elly], Nightcore III ~ Ti Amo ! - YouTube, Oct 16, 2011 - Uploaded by Baf | Top of The coRe
I tend to support this channel so allow me to replace the video with this one

BPM 160, the minimal BPM for hardcore
Type of synth riff/other effects, no synth but flute
Type of kicks, house kicks
so no (answered well in survey)[/spoiler]
I agree with your decision on this one that it is not Nightcore. I would, however, not argue much if someone said it was because, like you said, it has a lot of the elements required.
I counter a BPM of 155.
hko2006 wrote: About your edits
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/nightcore/edits/519034
Hmmm, not cap I for the Internet?
Internet is my bad. I'm so used to writing it in lower-case. It should be 'I' like you said.
hko2006 wrote: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/nightcore/edits/519446
has an impressive count of 201 <- subjective
Agreed. I remember trying to rewrite this, as it already said something that sounded subjective but in a slightly "clumsy" manner. Simply writing "has a count" should do.
hko2006 wrote: In 2011, the next big Nightcore uploader <-the 'big' is kind of subjective to me, and a total of 45 Nightcore songs isn't big, just it has a lot of views so I added it. Was it a big channel back in 2011? I didn't about nightcore till end of 2013.
Ahh, I misunderstood what was already written (which means it wasn't clear enough :D). I feel like it's okay to say "big" though, if it's significant enough to mention. Big is more a way of saying "this is why we are telling you" than "So many videos, omg".
hko2006 wrote: @OppaiSama, you should make a thread in The Red Carpet when you have time. A copy of your Editorship Request for Nightcore should do plus where you live/time zone.
I'll see if I have time :)
hko2006 wrote:Kind of like Prescriptive vs Descriptive.
I'd like to talk more about that later - I have to go now so I won't have time to chat about it.
I'll get back to ya soon.
You have successfully messed the layout of NU! lol
Welcome to Nightcore Universe! Enjoy your stay as much as you enjoy the original Nightcore songs!
Useful threads/links
What is Nightcore 101
Nightcore Channel Database
Nightcore Know Your Meme
How to make Nightcore (NIGHTCORE TUTORIAL) UPDATED
Speeding up seems to be a little magic making things a little bit more appealing.

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emilemil1
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Re: Nightcore Know Your Meme

Post by emilemil1 » May 14th, 2015, 11:57 am

This thread is looking a little weird :P

I only glanced at the tracks in the survey, not more than 5-10 seconds each, and on second glance I can definitely agree that Ti Amo is too slow. I rated entirely based on the genre/sound of the song though, since that seemed to be the purpose of the survey, not to be anal about setting the right tempo. My first impression was that it seemed overall eurodance-ish, with the exception of the main flute part, which I didn't get to hear while skimming through ^^

That's why I also said yes for Listen To Your Heart. Don't want to mess up the statistics because of nitpicking.
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HKO2006
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Re: Nightcore Know Your Meme

Post by HKO2006 » May 14th, 2015, 2:11 pm

OppaiSama wrote:I was slightly surprised to see someone disagree with that one :p
BPM count is 166~167.
The original is 73.
That's over 2X the speed :)
I can agree with the pitch, though, that it's not as high as I would usually consider in Nightcore. That having been said, I think of it more as an author's expression and would still call it Nightcore. :)
I have Virtual DJ and MixMeister BPM Analyzer to see the BPM and both have problem showing BPM of certain tracks ie if the BPM is too small like 73 <- it is actually half of the correct BPM so it should be 146. And 146 to 166 is 13.7%, a lot smaller than the 'standard' 25% used by Nightcore.
73 BPM would be like __________D.H.T. feat. Edmée - Listen to Your Heart (Furious F. EZ Radio Edit)
,

The inspiration of Nightcore is the pitched vocals in Scooter - Nessaja and Ramp! (The Logical Song)

(^they were in the meme but got deleted)

Nightcore liked it and wanted to make some themselves so they did so by speeding up songs so one of the main point of Nightcore is kind of the pitched vocal and it can be clearly heard that it is artificially pitched but sang in high pitch.
(^also got deleted)

Speaking of not speeding up enough
Nightcore II: Pretty Rave Girl is from 175 BPM to 189.2 BPM (sped up 8%)


When I was remaking Nightcore - Drive Me Crazy, I first thought it was sped up 25% as usual, so I listened my 25% version for a long time and got used to it, until I finish making the video, I found that my video is 10s longer than the original. So I used VDJ to check the sped up %, 31%! I quickly remake one. As a nitpick person I also had hard time picking which to upload when I have two version of the same song, sped up 25% the 'standard' and the 31% the original uploader used. At the end, I picked the 31% one for it has a higher pitch and it is used by original uploader.

But until now I still can't tell which is better. I like the slower vocal in 25% more though. One thing I like nightcore is I like faster vocal but not too fast.
OppaiSama wrote:
hko2006 wrote: 10. Azuro - Ti Amo (Video Edit) [feat. Elly], Nightcore III ~ Ti Amo ! - YouTube, Oct 16, 2011 - Uploaded by Baf | Top of The coRe
I tend to support this channel so allow me to replace the video with this one

BPM 160, the minimal BPM for hardcore
Type of synth riff/other effects, no synth but flute
Type of kicks, house kicks
so no (answered well in survey)
I agree with your decision on this one that it is not Nightcore. I would, however, not argue much if someone said it was because, like you said, it has a lot of the elements required.
I counter a BPM of 155.
If a part of a song is changed then it would sound like nightcore, I would be rather ok to accept it. eg house kicks are replaced with trance/hands up kicks. I have this idea in mind when I wrote the genres listed in the updated nightcore tutorial. http://nightcoreuniverse.net/viewtopic. ... 313#p26313
OppaiSama wrote:Ahh, I misunderstood what was already written (which means it wasn't clear enough :D). I feel like it's okay to say "big" though, if it's significant enough to mention. Big is more a way of saying "this is why we are telling you" than "So many videos, omg".
The problem is I don't know if it got famous in 2011 or after 2012/2013/2014, if it is the later one, the channel would be rather irrelevant to nightcore in 2011.
Image
Image
Turn out the channel got famous in mid/late 2012, so not really had too much to do with 2011.
Welcome to Nightcore Universe! Enjoy your stay as much as you enjoy the original Nightcore songs!
Useful threads/links
What is Nightcore 101
Nightcore Channel Database
Nightcore Know Your Meme
How to make Nightcore (NIGHTCORE TUTORIAL) UPDATED
Speeding up seems to be a little magic making things a little bit more appealing.

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OppaiSama
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Re: Nightcore Know Your Meme

Post by OppaiSama » May 20th, 2015, 3:14 pm

hko2006 wrote:And 146 to 166 is 13.7%, a lot smaller than the 'standard' 25% used by Nightcore.
As for the counting, I count myself and the margin of miscalculation is not very great so I would expect that song to be a minimum of 160.
As for the whole how much it is sped up - I have to be honest and say that it shouldn't really matter. While the original songs may be sped up a certain percentage, would should matter is the end-result, right?

As for Nr. 10 in the survey, I agree that it is close to NIghtcore, but it lacks the consistent off-beat. But I would also quickly accept it as Nightcore if it was fixed.

I love the fact that the forum broke on that message - wonder if it's a sign? :P
Also, I'll be able to do some editing on the Nightcore page now since I just handed in my Bachelor Thesis :D
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emilemil1
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Re: Nightcore Know Your Meme

Post by emilemil1 » May 20th, 2015, 4:17 pm

Perhaps it's better to say that 166 is quite a bit off from the standard 175 BPM.
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rsslayersr
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Re: Nightcore Know Your Meme

Post by rsslayersr » May 20th, 2015, 7:23 pm

I'm going back to the main issue here. Is the KYM definiton defining enough for the neutral normals?

OppaiSama, I know the feeling of ambition can be overwhelming, heck, it looks like you brought back a lot of activity here back because of it. But I believe there isn't a need for trying to change the definiton on that site.

There's a strategy of convincing people, and, though it feels weak, trying to appease the normals works more in your favor than being an extreme. Nightcore is imho not a genre. I think calling it a genre draws out a discussion not needed to understand and enjoy the music it brings. So seeing you going into this with that thought seems undirected. You could do more by making the page a lot more attractive, organized and very up-to-date.

Also did the survey.
Image
Enforcing the cute little sister of Happy Hardcore
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Re: Nightcore Know Your Meme

Post by OppaiSama » May 22nd, 2015, 11:30 am

rsslayersr wrote:I'm going back to the main issue here. Is the KYM definiton defining enough for the neutral normals?

(...) But I believe there isn't a need for trying to change the definiton on that site.

(...)So seeing you going into this with that thought seems undirected. You could do more by making the page a lot more attractive, organized and very up-to-date.

Also did the survey.
First off, thank you for the vote :)

On the one hand, I see your point with not making Nightcore a discussion, but on the other it looks to me like there already is a discussion - a discussion with two sides to it: the people of the old and the new Nightcore school.
It becomes a question of taking a fight or letting something run its course - and perhaps in our case it that course has already run. My main concern, and possibly my main motivation for wanting to make pretty the KYM page, lies with the clear distinction between the old and the new school. This distinction should in my sincere opinion be voiced on KYM.

As for the definition itself, I think it is very good except for the fact that I believe there are Nightcore songs out there that weren't originally Trance/Euro-dance/Hands-up, which means the current definition of Nightcore being
KYM Nightcore Page wrote:the style of speeding up Eurodance, Hands Up and Trance
is actually slightly incorrect.

I pose the following correction to the KYM page in the first paragraph:
Current:

Code: Select all

Nightcore is the glorified term to describe the style of speeding up Eurodance, Hands Up and Trance, emerged in the mid 2000s[12] on YouTube. It is characterized by a tempo of between 160 and 180 beats per minute[13] with high-pitched vocal. It is originated by the Norwegian DJ duo of the same name back in 2002.[1][2]

Since 2011, Nightcore has been also massively misused to describe sped up version of various music genres.
Suggestion:

Code: Select all

Nightcore is the glorified term used to describe sped up Eurodance, Hands Up and Trance; a style which emerged on YouTube in the mid 2000s.[12] It is characterized by a tempo of between 160 and 180 beats per minute[13] with high-pitched vocal. The name originates from a Norwegian DJ-duo which emerged in 2002.[1][2]

Since 2011, Nightcore became associated with sped up versions of various music genres, dividing the style into two schools: the old and the new.
The last sentence is, of course, very open to discussion. Calling it schools might be taking it too far, but this type of distinction would take into consideration all the "Nightcore"-labeled songs, not make it a fight, and instead making it a a question of preferred school.
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Re: Nightcore Know Your Meme

Post by OppaiSama » May 22nd, 2015, 11:42 am

Current Survey Count:

Nr. 1 |
Yes - 50%
No - 37.5%
________________________________________________________________

Nr. 2 |
Yes - 50%
No - 50%
________________________________________________________________

Nr. 3 |
Yes - 37.5%
No - 62.5%
________________________________________________________________

Nr. 4 |
Yes - 37.5%
No - 62.5%
________________________________________________________________

Nr. 5 |
Yes - 37.5%
No - 62.5%
________________________________________________________________

Nr. 6 |
Yes - 37.5%
No - 62.5%
________________________________________________________________

Nr. 7 |
Yes - 75%
No - 25%
________________________________________________________________

Nr. 8 |
Yes - 37.5%
No - 62.5%
________________________________________________________________

Nr. 9 |
Yes - 37.5%
No - 62.5%
________________________________________________________________

Nr. 10 |
Yes - 12.5%
No - 75%


What this tells us:
We do not agree on what is Nightcore or what is not. I don't intend to use these as a reason to discuss, but rather to state that since we ARE already in disagreement, a suggestion such as the one I made in the above comment seems justifiable.

Also, the only elements that seem to go again in all the videos with a majority "yes"-vote is the % sped-up and the pitch.
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